Voices of Experience

I just finished listening to the Voices of Experience CD's again. These Cd's came along with the 1-5 classes back around 2005-2006 when I got them. As I was listening to all of the people on there, there seems to have been a big emphasis on short term trading; in today out today along with the W&O plays. Several of the people talk about being out by 9:45 and enjoying the rest of the day. OEX George hitting it for $1000 in the first few minutes of the day. $20000 man trading daily on a 55 minute play or a 5 minute chart. They also talk about using 7 indicators instead of the 4. Even Gary talks about making money in minutes to an hour almost everyday instead of these trades that last days to weeks.

I guess my question is if this was working so well and then you moved that money to W&O's why did Gary slowly gravitate away from these short term trades to teaching Long term trades. I guess these CD's were done before he started teaching more of the long term trades.

I would love to see those 7 indictors that they used in the beginning and see how they traded back then. Sounds like they were doing well on the short charts.

I would love to hear from any that have insight on here or even PM me if that is better for you.

Thanks

Gary used to use 2 StochRSI's, then he dropped back to one. Each one had slightly different settings.

Remember that Gary himself is still growing and learning throughtout these many years. He just happens to be about 30 years or so ahead of the rest of us. He even admits that in class. He's always tinkering and experimenting to improve himself, and his processes. The intra-day stuff has always seemed like more of a job for him, so that may explain why he has shifted way from intraday trades and into longer more relaxing trades.

Granted "relaxed" is a relative term, as there are those that refuse to take their eyes off the charts once they enter a trade. For me, it drove me crazy. I used to do the OEX trades from WSB 1-5. After a while, they started to really ramp up my stress level. I did well with them, but it always seemed that I was chackled to the charts while in the trade. Doing it the way he teaches now seems more relaxing and less stressful. At least it does for me, your mileage may vary.

I concur with RR... GW continues to remind students that he never stops learning and growing. If he finds something that he feels is of value then he may incorporate it into his trading. Word of caution. My take on GW "incorporating something new" and what I see in this forum are two entirely different things. I will use GW's charting platform as an example. He is still using Qcharts. Plans to do so until they finally tell him Qcharts is being shut down or he starts experiencing major problems with the platform. Why? It works for him. He is not a tech guy and what he has works. Keep in mind that he has a small stake in Alchem, or at least he did when it started, and has nothing bad to say about Alchem but his choice is another platform that has worked for years. When he finally decides to switch he said he would probably run both platforms in parallel for a year - Qcharts as his trading and Alchem on the side to see if he would have gotten the same results. Apparently he is slow and methodical with stuff like that. Even some of the new material that has been introduced over the past year or two are things he had been working with for a year or two and tested with a few select coaching clients to see if it would help. By contrast, I see folks share stuff in here all the time and 3 to 5 days later the recipient(s) are using the new stuff in their live trading. Just something to think about.

As for a more direct answer to your question regarding short vs long, short charts are too much like a job and raise anxiety levels. Today, GW is all about teaching trading so that it can provide a lifestyle - not another job. He used to teach up a buck and out back in the day when short charts were taught. RTP students of that time were expected to only trade if they could make $4 minimum on the option (not the stock - the option). In today's environment there are some trades where you know you can probably make $3 to $5 on the option but you walk away knowing it may not be worth your time. The risk reward coupled with the value of your times eliminates the trade as a candidate. A typical good moving stock on the watch list can easily move $15-$30 w/out breaking a sweat. A lot of factors play into the option move but it is safe to say you should realize more than the original "buck" or two from 2005/2006. If you can afford to trade some of the best movers today then a $40, $50, up to $100+ move on the underlying is not unheard of. Today you are taught to make quality trades. Buying 1 or 2 contracts on a stock that regularly moves $20 to $30 is better than 5 to 10 contracts on stock that only moves $4 or $5. It took a long time for "trade stocks that move" to sink in for me. I was the worst for watching stocks that only moved $5 to $10 in a week or two. Kept playing it safe and trading defensive. The first time I bought 2 contracts on a good mover, paid $19 for the call options, and sold them or $37 in a week cured me of that.

Also, when you incorporate the naked side then you are maximizing your potential and it allows you to sit back and wait for quality set ups - not forcing trades. By the way, even though this is not taught most individuals can qualify to sell spreads. If you are not financially capable of trading naked you can certainly sell a put spread at times when you are supposed to sell naked Puts. You will not realize the same gain but it will hep to maximize your results. Just a thought.

Last but not least, GW mentioned several times over the past few years that any successful student that retired and stayed retired primarily used big charts. They might have been successful at short chart trading but they didn't stay there. It is my take there is nothing wrong with trading short charts today. If you have the time, already good at big charts, and can commit to looking at your short charts at the correct times then so be it. The problem, as stated in class, is that most get caught up in only watching the small charts and they get tunnel vision forgetting to check / assess what the big charts are doing.

Just my 5 cents. Hope you all have a wonderful holiday weekend!

NCT

I couldn't have said it better. I tried to, but I just couldn't.

Well put NCT.

Another point to remember is that the "up a buck and out" strategy was intended to help people get their entry points correct and then get out before the stock could turn over and erase their gain. I don't ever remember it as a principle to be used in trading after "expert" status was gained. As for stocks that move, IMHO it's not enough that a stock moves, it has to move reliably and somewhat predictably to be traded with a high probability of success.

IIRC, the "seven indicators" was what one of the students used to create a system that helped him with his OEX (?) trades. The actual indicators are never described. One indicator that is mentioned in the CDs but never in the class materials is money flow. I found this interesting since money flow and other closely related indicators use volume, and Gary said that he never looks at volume. This might be heresy, but I find using Wyckoff principles of volume analysis helps me be more confident about reversal points. Just another piece of the puzzle for me.

This will probably be one of my last contributions for a while as my time is more productivity doing other things but throw this out for anyone that is working hard to do as instructed. I have not listened to voices of experience since circa 2009. Remember very little from the CD series except for suggestions from one lady. She signed up for all the recommended newsletter subscription mentioned in class as a supplemental tool while she learned to do this. Eventually she reached a point where the newsletters were used to test her knowledge. She didn't read them for the expert assessment on her stocks. She read the newsletters to figure out what the experts missed. Her one recommendation for new students is to learn how the charts work together. How the smaller chart movements worked in context of the larger charts. This resonated with me because I was tired of getting pissed off that I made a great trade decision on a 233/Daily/Weekly decision, used a 13 or 21 action as taught, noted that the 55 was about to turn against me but ignored because I wasn't trading the 55, entered the trade, and then watched the stock move against me for a 1.5 to 2 days by a few bucks. I got out with a relatively small loss because we had to be right "right now" even though the bigger charts were till turning and crossing my direction. Then, about the time I got out the stock goes $15 to $20 in my original direction over the next 3 to 5 days not long after I exited with a small loss. Being able to read the charts is crucial to being successful. That is GW's primary teaching style today. Being able to read the big picture. Most individuals would be far better off to attend a few of the new courses if their schedule and finances allow or attend a chart webinar from time to time. There is a lot of time spent debating something that was stated 10 to 15 years ago that may no longer be relevant.

As for multiple stochastics. GW acknowledged in one of my first 1 to 5 courses that they used to use multiple stochastics but felt like the indicators he was teaching in my class were far better. That was enough for me, or so I thought. I, like many of you, spent a few years reading all the technical books on the booklist plus some. I had a small fortune invested as some of these books are $150 a pop. I could give you 15 reasons why something was doing to go up and another 15 why it was going down. Information overload. The only thing I found that works more often, when done correctly and after spending time doing the work, is using GW's system as taught today. The only other thing that comes close is being able to read price which is more of an art and direct contradiction to GW's style.

I will you all the best. Please know that you already have the necessary tools. There is no need to add anything else - just get better with what you already have and work on learning how the charts work together. Start with Weekly down to 233. Once you start to get a feel with those then add the 144, then 89, 55, etc. Don't try to figure it all out at once. This is a marathon, not a sprint. IF your time and funds will allow then attend a charting webinar from time to time. The cost is the price of a nice dinner. Attend one month, take a month off while you are learning, and then take another in month 3. Whatever works for you. Just a suggestion.

NCT

Hi NCTrader,

I have been a student of GW since the 2007 online WSB 1-5 and online RTP, and have taken the current survival series and also RTP 2015-2017. I just discovered this forum. I have lots to learn still, working as hard as I can.

I just want to say THANK YOU for your contribution to this forum! Your posts are inspiring and insightful.

Many Thanks!

AvaC

In today's bull market environment you will be much better off to look at the weekly chart and buy time. I closed a DE trade yesterday for a gain of 400 percent that was one of the most relaxed trades I have ever been in. I entered in October and bought March. I stayed in through earnings , which I rarely do, because of the trading zone, trend and the amount of time bought. In this case the trend is definitely your friend.

You should definitely consider going to the new classes that Gary teaches. They are so much better than the old format. I appreciate Gary sharing what he has learned in the 10 plus years since those classes were taught. Now if he could just stay on topic when he teaches the classes would be perfect.

They are much better than the old format.

BUT MY GOD, I WISH HE WOULD STOP WITH ALL THE STUPID STORIES ABOUT, "violence training", and examples of dumb things students have done in the past or recently. People find it hard to know when to take notes and when to listen because he constantly wanders off into some rant about all of us becoming better persons. It's as if he's lecturing a room full of misfit teenagers.

He could teach Survivor 1, 2 and 3 in one whole day if he didn't waste everybody's (and his own) time with silly stories and examples.

And yes I know that Jesus (as he points out) taught in parables, but Jesus only used ONE parable to make a point. Not 3 or 4 and THEN loose track of what he was talking about in the first place. Taking 30 minutes to explain how a commercial airliner flies to China doesn't have squat to do with trading and investing. We don't care because it's not pertinent to what we came to your class to learn; just get on with teaching what we paid you for!!!

Stop talking about TFT, stop talking about students and former students and stop talking about the Military or should I say "Seals". I say that because apparently the "Seals" are the ONLY units in his Military.

And if I hear one more story about what the "Seals" do, I think I'm gonna puke. I can say that because I served. Also I love ALL of my brothers-n-arms. Most of what he says about it is off base anyways, so I don't need a lecture about what "guys" in the Military do or did. I was the "guys" in the Military!!! Been there, done that and have the damn T-shirt so shut up about it already.

But yes the Survivor format now is better than the old WSB 1-5 stuff.

Sorry, I just needed to get that off my chest for a second. I'm all better now.

Never mind me, I'm just feeling salty today. It'll pass, I hope.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2018 02:10PM by RichieRick.

Well said!!!