Made money but.....
Posted by tpplayer32
|
Re: Made money but..... June 07, 2014 11:51PM |
tpplayer32Traded BIDU on 9/6 with mixed results
bought 50 contracts @.22 (weekly)- 9:48. Stock turned against me and I turned tail at 9:56 for a $300 dollar loss. I got back in at 10:04 @ .09 when the stock reaffirmed itself. I sold 1/2 my position at 10:42 for .35 and the other 1/2 at 10:49 for .20. I ended up with a $600 profit and an unsatisfied feeling that I should have done better on this trade.
It would have been nice to know what chart you used for an entry but let’s look at a 3 chart. I see your entry and your exit. I think the first problem you had was you watched the money. I understand how a $300 loss can rattle a person. And looking at the candles and the MF (Money Flow) it had all the appearance of doing a pull back except the candle you exited on was a bullish one even though it was red. (See page 148 Marker Makers Edge) That candle hammered out the bottom and confirmation came on the next candle.
Moving to a 10 chart I see nothing wrong with your entry the candles were riding nicely along the BB, so again I think you were watching your money and not the chart. Candles can often ride along the BB but when the candle and the wick is way outside the BB then waiting for a pull back may be the right thing to do. Or if a candle begins to pull sideways you’ll notice the BB closing in over time. If you don’t it is very possible that there may be another good move up coming once the candles hit a moving average for support or resistance.
When I look at the 21, 34 and 55 I see nothing wrong with your entry. Even the 8 chart says for you not to leave your trade.
tpplayer32 When I first dumped the trade for a loss at 9:56, I looked again at the charts and realized just how far outside the B-bands the stock had gotten. Others can hopefully weigh in , but I suppose one of my mistakes was getting in too early and not waiting for a pullback. In retrospect I also appeared to have stayed too long.
Your mistake as far as I can see is looking at the profit and seeing none you decided the trade was going against you without really looking at the charts. Yes you had a pull back but not enough of one to exit your winning trade. Your entry was good…could have been better but really not bad at all.
Questions: 1. When a stock starts a meteoric rise in the morning, do you always wait for a pullback? If not, how do you determine if one will occur and if it is just a head-fake or a complete reversal.
2. At times I have noticed that sometimes a movement will reverse and/or go sideways for awhile before eventually continuing to work its way in the direction of the original move. Sometimes this continued movement, if captured, can yield a substantial profit. Just wondering if any of the short chart traders will hold through these extended pauses or pull-backs and if so, what do you see in the larger charts (55, 34) that would signal to you that the movement will eventually continue?
I am a small chart trader. No I don’t always wait for a pull back. It all depends. There are all sorts of reversal signals and they all depend on what chart you use for entry IF you are trading smaller charts. Often when I get into a trade I watch (1) small charts for an exit and that is when the 5 crosses the 10 moving average. Sometimes when a stock has a pop early I jump on it if the 55 and 34 are rising. When I see a red candle forming on one of these 2 charts I begin to think of exiting the trade. That’s when I start looking at my smaller charts. If the MF is curving down, if my MACD lines are shrinking, if my ADX is flattening and my candles are getting smaller with every tick, if I see the net slowing down, I have my option ready to send with just a push of my finger.
As soon as I get in any trade I am looking for a signal to leave.
(My answer to your question #2) Now take a look at your 34 chart for BIDU 6/5/14 at the open. As you start to glance up the BB look how those candles are starting to get smaller. Note how they are all stuck on the BB? Stay in that trade until the first candle leaves the BB that would be the candle you see @ 13:38. As that candle was forming you could see it was leaving the BB EXIT! There’s a pull back.
Let’s look at another signal. Look at BIDU on 4/25/14 on the open. There’s a pull back. Look at that Stoch RSI in the over sold position! It clearly tells you do not buy a call but buy a PUT! Look at the MF, it is near the 80. You have the start of an E but that candle is shouting at you. That is a SLAM. They (Slams) are fast and once that 5 crosses that 10 think about leaving that trade on a SLAM especially when you get an engulfing patter like you did at the candle close @ 10:40.
Another pull back…Look at BIDU on the 10 chart on 4/14 open. When you see a candle like that at the top of a move you have a bearish signal. These smaller charts can prewarn you about the bigger ones and prevent too early an entry off a bigger chart. Now note, when you are seeing red candles start watching for white one especially larger white ones if you are waiting to buy a call. This is telling you that traders are buying in. See those candles falling on the 10 chart until the white one forms @ 10:00? Look at the money flow it turned up. Get out! If you are in a put and get ready for a call.
Another one and it’ll be my last example I promise. Look at the open on the 10 chart on 4/2/14/ Note the MF is above 70 (over sold warning). Since MF is in that area wait another 10 minutes for the next candle. It is red and didn’t go higher than the open. This is a warning to wait. And it is a good thing you did.
When looking for pull backs watch your smaller charts. They are your first warning. Watch candles they will help. Watch indicators. Generally though on the small charts (a 5 usually is what I use) wait for the 5 to cross the 10 moving average up or down depending on how you have bought your option or want to buy an option.
My suggestion…scroll back and find places on 10 minute charts where the candle is out of the BB. Look at a 34 or 55 and see where that candle is. Compare these two charts for confirmation of pull backs looking at the 10 or 5 chart. I can tell you all day long but seeing for yourself after some of these hints will be the best thing for you.
Sorry so long winded. Forgive me….
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 02:47PM by Darcy2.
bought 50 contracts @.22 (weekly)- 9:48. Stock turned against me and I turned tail at 9:56 for a $300 dollar loss. I got back in at 10:04 @ .09 when the stock reaffirmed itself. I sold 1/2 my position at 10:42 for .35 and the other 1/2 at 10:49 for .20. I ended up with a $600 profit and an unsatisfied feeling that I should have done better on this trade.
It would have been nice to know what chart you used for an entry but let’s look at a 3 chart. I see your entry and your exit. I think the first problem you had was you watched the money. I understand how a $300 loss can rattle a person. And looking at the candles and the MF (Money Flow) it had all the appearance of doing a pull back except the candle you exited on was a bullish one even though it was red. (See page 148 Marker Makers Edge) That candle hammered out the bottom and confirmation came on the next candle.
Moving to a 10 chart I see nothing wrong with your entry the candles were riding nicely along the BB, so again I think you were watching your money and not the chart. Candles can often ride along the BB but when the candle and the wick is way outside the BB then waiting for a pull back may be the right thing to do. Or if a candle begins to pull sideways you’ll notice the BB closing in over time. If you don’t it is very possible that there may be another good move up coming once the candles hit a moving average for support or resistance.
When I look at the 21, 34 and 55 I see nothing wrong with your entry. Even the 8 chart says for you not to leave your trade.
tpplayer32 When I first dumped the trade for a loss at 9:56, I looked again at the charts and realized just how far outside the B-bands the stock had gotten. Others can hopefully weigh in , but I suppose one of my mistakes was getting in too early and not waiting for a pullback. In retrospect I also appeared to have stayed too long.
Your mistake as far as I can see is looking at the profit and seeing none you decided the trade was going against you without really looking at the charts. Yes you had a pull back but not enough of one to exit your winning trade. Your entry was good…could have been better but really not bad at all.
Questions: 1. When a stock starts a meteoric rise in the morning, do you always wait for a pullback? If not, how do you determine if one will occur and if it is just a head-fake or a complete reversal.
2. At times I have noticed that sometimes a movement will reverse and/or go sideways for awhile before eventually continuing to work its way in the direction of the original move. Sometimes this continued movement, if captured, can yield a substantial profit. Just wondering if any of the short chart traders will hold through these extended pauses or pull-backs and if so, what do you see in the larger charts (55, 34) that would signal to you that the movement will eventually continue?
I am a small chart trader. No I don’t always wait for a pull back. It all depends. There are all sorts of reversal signals and they all depend on what chart you use for entry IF you are trading smaller charts. Often when I get into a trade I watch (1) small charts for an exit and that is when the 5 crosses the 10 moving average. Sometimes when a stock has a pop early I jump on it if the 55 and 34 are rising. When I see a red candle forming on one of these 2 charts I begin to think of exiting the trade. That’s when I start looking at my smaller charts. If the MF is curving down, if my MACD lines are shrinking, if my ADX is flattening and my candles are getting smaller with every tick, if I see the net slowing down, I have my option ready to send with just a push of my finger.
As soon as I get in any trade I am looking for a signal to leave.
(My answer to your question #2) Now take a look at your 34 chart for BIDU 6/5/14 at the open. As you start to glance up the BB look how those candles are starting to get smaller. Note how they are all stuck on the BB? Stay in that trade until the first candle leaves the BB that would be the candle you see @ 13:38. As that candle was forming you could see it was leaving the BB EXIT! There’s a pull back.
Let’s look at another signal. Look at BIDU on 4/25/14 on the open. There’s a pull back. Look at that Stoch RSI in the over sold position! It clearly tells you do not buy a call but buy a PUT! Look at the MF, it is near the 80. You have the start of an E but that candle is shouting at you. That is a SLAM. They (Slams) are fast and once that 5 crosses that 10 think about leaving that trade on a SLAM especially when you get an engulfing patter like you did at the candle close @ 10:40.
Another pull back…Look at BIDU on the 10 chart on 4/14 open. When you see a candle like that at the top of a move you have a bearish signal. These smaller charts can prewarn you about the bigger ones and prevent too early an entry off a bigger chart. Now note, when you are seeing red candles start watching for white one especially larger white ones if you are waiting to buy a call. This is telling you that traders are buying in. See those candles falling on the 10 chart until the white one forms @ 10:00? Look at the money flow it turned up. Get out! If you are in a put and get ready for a call.
Another one and it’ll be my last example I promise. Look at the open on the 10 chart on 4/2/14/ Note the MF is above 70 (over sold warning). Since MF is in that area wait another 10 minutes for the next candle. It is red and didn’t go higher than the open. This is a warning to wait. And it is a good thing you did.
When looking for pull backs watch your smaller charts. They are your first warning. Watch candles they will help. Watch indicators. Generally though on the small charts (a 5 usually is what I use) wait for the 5 to cross the 10 moving average up or down depending on how you have bought your option or want to buy an option.
My suggestion…scroll back and find places on 10 minute charts where the candle is out of the BB. Look at a 34 or 55 and see where that candle is. Compare these two charts for confirmation of pull backs looking at the 10 or 5 chart. I can tell you all day long but seeing for yourself after some of these hints will be the best thing for you.
Sorry so long winded. Forgive me….
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 02:47PM by Darcy2.
|
Re: Made money but..... June 08, 2014 06:28AM |
This is also something that I struggle with. I'm trying to follow along with you when you reference pg. 148 of the Market Maker's Edge. I purchased the iBooks edition for my iPad and it doesn't have page numbers. Would you please say what section of the book you are referring to so that I can look it up?
Thank you for the detailed post.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 07:39AM by robert.
Thank you for the detailed post.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 07:39AM by robert.
|
Re: Made money but..... June 09, 2014 07:33AM |
tpplayer32
Will look at the dates sometime today but am heading out of town and will be gone most of the day.
But let me say this...
Generally when S/O and I enter a trade the 55,34,21,10,8,5,3,and 1 are all showing E with the 55,34,and 21 with a HRFP/FP as well.
We have entered trades with the 55 close to a HRFP/FP but with the 34 and 21 already showing either and sometimes the 55 is showing E. If we do not have something on the 55 we know we are going to be in a very short trade. The E signals is the main thing we look for then a candle signal. After that we look at eveything else.
Generally in the morning we are searching for our basket with the net moving quickly (high volume) and in the direction of the market. These are the stocks that attract us first. If one of them has E on the charts I've mentioned we are in; pull back or not. Naturally if the candle is way OUTSIDE of the BB we wait or sometimes I jump on a SLAM trade. It just depends on how far out of the BB the candle is and how high the stock went out of the BB (I like to see a $10.00 or more out of the B
. I always wait for a red candle in a case such as this. I have seen the thing move sideways and never pull back (news does that).
Yes I agree hindsight is very clear and while the market and stocks are moving it is harder to see but using your rays and line extensions will help a lot as you look as you watch the net on your basket. Watch smaller charts because that is where you will see the move up or down and pick a few stocks to watch that look like they may produce a trade.
Your entry was fine. Remember you bought 50 contracts and a small move down really looks like you are crashing and burning.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 10:30AM by Darcy2.
Will look at the dates sometime today but am heading out of town and will be gone most of the day.
But let me say this...
Generally when S/O and I enter a trade the 55,34,21,10,8,5,3,and 1 are all showing E with the 55,34,and 21 with a HRFP/FP as well.
We have entered trades with the 55 close to a HRFP/FP but with the 34 and 21 already showing either and sometimes the 55 is showing E. If we do not have something on the 55 we know we are going to be in a very short trade. The E signals is the main thing we look for then a candle signal. After that we look at eveything else.
Generally in the morning we are searching for our basket with the net moving quickly (high volume) and in the direction of the market. These are the stocks that attract us first. If one of them has E on the charts I've mentioned we are in; pull back or not. Naturally if the candle is way OUTSIDE of the BB we wait or sometimes I jump on a SLAM trade. It just depends on how far out of the BB the candle is and how high the stock went out of the BB (I like to see a $10.00 or more out of the B
. I always wait for a red candle in a case such as this. I have seen the thing move sideways and never pull back (news does that).
Yes I agree hindsight is very clear and while the market and stocks are moving it is harder to see but using your rays and line extensions will help a lot as you look as you watch the net on your basket. Watch smaller charts because that is where you will see the move up or down and pick a few stocks to watch that look like they may produce a trade.
Your entry was fine. Remember you bought 50 contracts and a small move down really looks like you are crashing and burning.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 10:30AM by Darcy2.
|
Re: Made money but..... June 10, 2014 08:17AM |
Thank you all for the nice statements...tp, I may have to do this in parts but I will start... (If you find type-o's forgive. I am on my lap top and I just don't type as well on it)
tp: "Regarding my trade, I actually used the 1 min chart to enter and exit Lately I,ve been being burned by waiting too long to exit trades that have turned against me (especially when first entering). It seems when I wait for a reversal signal ( 5x10, 8ma/candles) on the 10,5, or even 3 min chart, Ive already lost a boatload of money."
When doing small charts you first have to use the 55 as your trend chart not your action chart. I do not know if you are doing that but just in case you weren't I thought I would say that. A 34 or 21 are not your action charts either and more often than not the 8 is really too fast for small chart trades. This may be your first problem. A 5 or 3 is best. IN fact in the summer zone use a 34 for a trend. A 55 is too long.
tp: (repeating question) "Regarding my trade, I actually used the 1 min chart to enter and exit Lately I,ve been being burned by waiting too long to exit trades that have turned against me (especially when first entering). It seems when I wait for a reversal signal ( 5x10, 8ma/candles) on the 10,5, or even 3 min chart, Ive already lost a boatload of money."
A 1 chart is really to fast for an entry. The candles can make you see a loss while your trend chart is still moving in your direction. A 1 chart is good to see the action happening within the 3 and 5. If you wait for the 5 to x the 10 and it is making you wait to long your entry is messed up. Also have you taken note of the spread? If you are buying 50 contracts and your spread is a nickel you are already $250.00 down. If it is more than that you can see what a head fake that can be.
So I have a question maybe 2 or more
...What sort of spreads have you been having? What time of day are you entering? How much is a boat load? Have you read GW's book list in 1-5? How long had you practiced and how was it in comparison to real? Did you have 26 good trades in a row before doing real? Do you mark on your chart your point of entry? If a candle closes below or above your point of entry that may be your exit point if you are not pin-pointing your entry.
Suggestion: If you do not have a sheet that lists the following : TIME, DATE, TICKER, PRICE, MONTH/STRIKE CALL/PUT, BID, ASK, CONTRACTS, COST, LOSS/PROFIT....you need to make one. Practice using these items mentioned writing them down. I wrote on these sheets why I entered, what I saw, what chart I used, where the market was at the time (up down or mixed) and why I looked at that stock in the first place. You need to see what you see and why you saw it. It is easy to go back and look but until you know what you saw and why you traded you'll not be able to discover your errors.
I'll get to the trades later right now the market is open and off I go.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 08:42AM by Darcy2.
tp: "Regarding my trade, I actually used the 1 min chart to enter and exit Lately I,ve been being burned by waiting too long to exit trades that have turned against me (especially when first entering). It seems when I wait for a reversal signal ( 5x10, 8ma/candles) on the 10,5, or even 3 min chart, Ive already lost a boatload of money."
When doing small charts you first have to use the 55 as your trend chart not your action chart. I do not know if you are doing that but just in case you weren't I thought I would say that. A 34 or 21 are not your action charts either and more often than not the 8 is really too fast for small chart trades. This may be your first problem. A 5 or 3 is best. IN fact in the summer zone use a 34 for a trend. A 55 is too long.
tp: (repeating question) "Regarding my trade, I actually used the 1 min chart to enter and exit Lately I,ve been being burned by waiting too long to exit trades that have turned against me (especially when first entering). It seems when I wait for a reversal signal ( 5x10, 8ma/candles) on the 10,5, or even 3 min chart, Ive already lost a boatload of money."
A 1 chart is really to fast for an entry. The candles can make you see a loss while your trend chart is still moving in your direction. A 1 chart is good to see the action happening within the 3 and 5. If you wait for the 5 to x the 10 and it is making you wait to long your entry is messed up. Also have you taken note of the spread? If you are buying 50 contracts and your spread is a nickel you are already $250.00 down. If it is more than that you can see what a head fake that can be.
So I have a question maybe 2 or more
...What sort of spreads have you been having? What time of day are you entering? How much is a boat load? Have you read GW's book list in 1-5? How long had you practiced and how was it in comparison to real? Did you have 26 good trades in a row before doing real? Do you mark on your chart your point of entry? If a candle closes below or above your point of entry that may be your exit point if you are not pin-pointing your entry.
Suggestion: If you do not have a sheet that lists the following : TIME, DATE, TICKER, PRICE, MONTH/STRIKE CALL/PUT, BID, ASK, CONTRACTS, COST, LOSS/PROFIT....you need to make one. Practice using these items mentioned writing them down. I wrote on these sheets why I entered, what I saw, what chart I used, where the market was at the time (up down or mixed) and why I looked at that stock in the first place. You need to see what you see and why you saw it. It is easy to go back and look but until you know what you saw and why you traded you'll not be able to discover your errors.
I'll get to the trades later right now the market is open and off I go.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 08:42AM by Darcy2.
|
Re: Made money but..... June 10, 2014 01:13PM |
tp: "3. BIDU 4/14 Considering the strong support on the 55,34, 21,5,and 3, would you have perhaps stolen a peek at S/O's 1 min chart to get an early exit from your put at 9:58?"
I steal from S/O all the time. I cheat off his paper. In fact S/O finds E trades faster than I can click from chart to chart. He starts by writing down the open using up and down arrows telling him which way the stock has opened for trading. These stocks are:
CMG, AMZN, CR, NFLX, AAPL, VZ, Q'S, FSLR, LNKD, WYNN, EQIX, VMW, WDAY, CAT, CMI, MA, BIDU, BIIB, V, TSLA.
Remember a short pencil is better than a long memory. I made him a chart using EXCEL that has these stocks listed in a box with a space so he can write in them. It helps him see how much a stock is moving from the open. It is just a good visual for him. When he sees a stock starting to change fast his attention is drawn to that stock and thus the charts of that stock. All this happens within a few minutes of the market open. Usually within 10 minutes we have a trade using this list. He saves these sheets and I copy off new ones when he needs them.
S/O watches the net ALOT. Did I mention that S/O watches the net ALOT.
Just in case I forgot to mention S/O watches the net ALOT.
I hope I didn't forget to say S/O watches the net
ALOT.
This is the way he sees his list of stocks moving enough to get into a trade. I don't think GW taught any of us students to do that but for S/O watching the net helps him find his trades.
So do I cheat off S/O's charts? Yep. I do not have a 1 chart. I have a 10, 8 qnd 3. S/O has a 10, 5 and 1. For some reason the 1 chart makes my eyes roll like those apples and oranges in a slot machine.
This is summer time so trading will be fast. What we have noticed is the stocks pop (up or down) and then go sideways with another trade possible at about 2-3 PM. That's how we spotted GMCR...well actually S/O did. I had about thrown in the towel.
I steal from S/O all the time. I cheat off his paper. In fact S/O finds E trades faster than I can click from chart to chart. He starts by writing down the open using up and down arrows telling him which way the stock has opened for trading. These stocks are:
CMG, AMZN, CR, NFLX, AAPL, VZ, Q'S, FSLR, LNKD, WYNN, EQIX, VMW, WDAY, CAT, CMI, MA, BIDU, BIIB, V, TSLA.
Remember a short pencil is better than a long memory. I made him a chart using EXCEL that has these stocks listed in a box with a space so he can write in them. It helps him see how much a stock is moving from the open. It is just a good visual for him. When he sees a stock starting to change fast his attention is drawn to that stock and thus the charts of that stock. All this happens within a few minutes of the market open. Usually within 10 minutes we have a trade using this list. He saves these sheets and I copy off new ones when he needs them.
S/O watches the net ALOT. Did I mention that S/O watches the net ALOT.
Just in case I forgot to mention S/O watches the net ALOT.
ALOT.
This is the way he sees his list of stocks moving enough to get into a trade. I don't think GW taught any of us students to do that but for S/O watching the net helps him find his trades.
So do I cheat off S/O's charts? Yep. I do not have a 1 chart. I have a 10, 8 qnd 3. S/O has a 10, 5 and 1. For some reason the 1 chart makes my eyes roll like those apples and oranges in a slot machine.
This is summer time so trading will be fast. What we have noticed is the stocks pop (up or down) and then go sideways with another trade possible at about 2-3 PM. That's how we spotted GMCR...well actually S/O did. I had about thrown in the towel.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.